Showing posts with label art. Show all posts
Showing posts with label art. Show all posts

Thursday, November 14, 2013

The Arts and the Glory of the Lord

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GE7VUf7xEgg/TZGDBKoo0FI/AAAAAAAAAJs/xK4LAkD3srY/s1600/laksa.jpg
Three months ago I was interviewed by a postgraduate student who is currently researching for King’s College London on the relationship between the arts and Christianity in Singapore. Seated beside me were an award-winning poet and two producers of stage drama. I was not in any way as active in the art scene as them. My only contribution in the 3-hours long interview was a theological reflection on pop culture, especially the movies.

Throughout the interview, we were shown 10 different art pieces such as T. S. Elliot's despairing poem The Hollow Men, Andres Serrano's controversial photograph Piss Christ, Rembrandt's sketch of Abraham dismissing Hagar and Ishmael, and John Lennon's atheistic utopian song Imagine. After the interview, I wonder what is the place for arts in a church?

Some of us relate the arts to high cultures of classical music, renaissance paintings, ballet, and perhaps also to exquisite cigars and vintage wine. Others think that arts are related only to beauty or aesthetic contemplation.

To Nicholas Wolterstorff, a Reformed philosopher and theologian, the arts are much more than these. They are first and foremost "instruments" which are "inextricably embedded in the fabric of human intention" that equip "us for action" with respect to the world, to other people, and to God. (See his Art in Action [USA: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1980], 3-4.) Wolterstorff is saying that arts are something we intentionally make in order to help us to act accordingly in our respective context.

For instance, how food is presented on our plate affects how we act; in this case, it either encourages or discourages our anticipation to eat and savour the food. That’s why a nice photograph of food is so important in restaurant’s menu, on hawker stall’s signboard, and on food blogs. Can you recall the last time when you felt disappointed, if not cheated, when the actual serving was not as tasty as portrayed in the photograph? That‘s how art affects how we re-act.

Talking about food, I remember someone I met over lunch last year. That man seemed to be very familiar with food. While we were waiting for our order, the waiters at the restaurant would occasionally exchange foodie jargon with him. And when the food arrived, that man would describe the uniqueness of each dish to us. He would advise us to begin with certain dish first so that (to paraphrase him) “our palate is not confused.” As one who grew up eating at hawker stalls, I thought that was new. It is common to hear that our mind gets confused; but tongue? Anyway, that noon I had a glimpse into to the art of eating. Certain skillsets or instruments are needed to enjoy food, to help us to act in the context of food appreciation. Only after the lunch that I found out that the man was a Senior Vice President of Singapore Hotel and Tourism Education Centre (Shatec Institutes). His job was to perfect the art of eating, the act of savouring food.

The arts are instruments humans intentionally make in order to help us to act accordingly in our respective context. They serve human life. Wherever there are humans, there is art. As Wolterstorff wrote, 
"We know of no people which has done without music and fiction and poetry and role-playing and sculpture and visual depiction. Possibly some have done without one or the other of these; none to our knowledge has done without one or the other of these." (Ibid., 4)  
Art is part of the clothes we wear, food we eat, shopping complexes we patronize, films we watch, games we play, novels we read, songs we listen, hymns we sing, and the myriad of other things we intentionally make. This reminds us of what apostle Paul wrote in 1 Corinthian 10:31, "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God."

This verse tells us that all that Christians do, including our creation and appreciation of the arts, is done for God’s glory. 

Christians create arts for a different context from non-Christians. "The ultimate distinction," wrote Daniel Siebell, "is not between Christian art and autonomous modern art but between art that…. can bring forth or testify to an embodied transcendence…. and art that denies such transcendence." (God in the Gallery: A Christian Embrace of Modern Art [USA: Baker Academic, 2008], 164.) Christians create arts in the context of the sublime glory of the Lord. As the great composer Johann Sebastian Bach is believed to have said, "The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul."

Whether the world can see or hear or taste the glory of God through the arts is another matter altogether. Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear. Whoever has eyes, let them see. Whoever has tongue, let them taste. However, there will always be those who see yet not perceive, those who hear but not understand, and those who taste but not feel—Like those who heard Jesus’ parables but did not comprehend (Luke 8:8-10). But to the Christians, "The whole earth is full of His glory" (Isaiah 6:3).

This reflection is just a sketch. The arts are too huge a subject to be addressed here. Nonetheless, I hope this reflection able to provide some pointers of where to go and what to look for, especially for those whose vocation are in the arts. So the next time you take a photo of your food with a phone, try to find how it can be God-glorifying. Then post it on Facebook or Instagram. Whether or not people will see God’s glory through it is another matter. What is important is that you have created an art for His glory. You have acted accordingly to the context. I think the same principle applies to everyone in other creative act be it in design, dance, fashion, musical, cooking, eating, filming, etc.

Monday, November 02, 2009

The Call Of Malaysian Christian Artist

Pastor Keng Sen has generously shared some of his artistic works in this blog. Enjoy! If you'd like to be part of a network of Christian artists in Malaysia, do get in touch with him.

Tuesday, September 01, 2009

Arts and the Church

The Agora recently threw a discussion of the relationship between Arts and the Church - an uncomfortable one at best. The relationship, I mean, not the discussion.

There is a joke amongst musicians in the Christian Contemporary Music world: just how many JPM's (Jesus's Per Minute) does a song's lyric need before a Christian radio station will agree to play it on the air? The joke points not so subtly to a long-standing complaint from Christians involved in the arts, who often feel that local churches demand that 'Christian' art carry obvious evangelical overtones.

Of course, there are complaints that go the other way as well: many in the church fear that the inclusion of contemporary works of art, drama, music, etc. into corporate worship is a form of compromise with the world.

Both complaints have merit. And both complaints are based upon misunderstandings: often churches do not understand either the power or the limitations of art, and so church leaders can sometimes make demands of artists that end up destroying the art; often artists do not understand the nature of the Gospel itself, and so sometimes in their efforts to help Christians engage with culture they can end up compromising the church - and vice versa: often churches to not understand the nature of the Gospel, while artists can underestimate the power and limitations of art. Throw all that into the rojak, and what the Church often gets is sub-standard art preaching a sub-standard gospel. Which comes first, bad art or bad gospel? Sometimes it is hard to tell.

C.S. Lewis was a champion of the idea that there are Stories ('Myths') that transcend storytelling itself. From his perspective as a professor of medieval literature, even a very good poet or writer cannot elevate a two-dimensional story, or a collection of facts; by contrast, a fully realized, 'mythical' story can be told un-poetically or even in synopsis form, and will still seize the heart of the listener. From Lewis' perspective, the Gospel story is the greatest and most complete of all stories, of which other myths only partake in bits and pieces. Once the Church distills the great Story down to a collection of propositional - or pietistic - 'truths' (which may or may not bear any resemblance to reality), it is very difficult for even a very good Christian artist to resurrect the underlying story. But if the Church continues to tell the Gospel story, the propositional truths will remain evident, will become even more so! - and the hearts of those who listen will be captured by the beauty of Christ.

So what we find is a truly symbiotic relationship. Artists - Christians with a gift for storytelling - need the Church to preach the real Story to them, the Story which will elevate their art beyond the merely beautiful, or prophetic, through the mythical to the sublime. And the Church needs Christian artists to imagine and reimagine the great Story for each context and time, so as to elevate truth and theology beyond mere sermonizing to an art form that actually preaches 'the Gospel, in season and out of season' to everyone who will hear.

Thursday, July 30, 2009

Christian Imagination: Faith & Arts

The Agora and Labu Ministry will organize a forum to connect like minded Christians in connecting their faith with arts in CDPC, 22 August 2009 (Saturday) at 10.00 am. Do register with me at hedonese at yahoo dot com


Center For Faith And Work: Artists tell the stories of our culture, and impact 21st century society as perhaps no other field does. To the extent that art reflects the heart of its creator, lives transformed by the Gospel serve as agents of cultural change.

Why Art?

This is a talk Makoto Fujimura gave in Leesburg, Florida to the board of Leesburg Center for the Arts. It was originally published on Mako's "Refractions" blog.

"The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance of things, but their inward significance."
—Aristotle

As an artist, I often find myself trying to answer “Why Art?” Why is art necessary in our lives and in our education? How can I justify spending so much of my time and expenses invested in being an artist, and helping others by advocating for their artistic expressions? Why do we need the arts here in Leesburg? We have now much research pointing to the economic benefit of bringing art into communities. We have efforts to scientifically prove that the arts help us directly in education, in improving children’s school grades, and helping them to engage better with their worlds. I can give you evidence of how the arts help slow down dementia and reduce stress. (see Gifts of the Muse, by Rand Corporation)

But usually, in these gatherings, I end up listening to people, by finding out what deeply matters to them. And I often find that in the areas that they are most engaged in, and most passionate about, art is already present in that conversation. The person I may be speaking with may not know anything about art in New York, but he/she may talk about their children’s dream to become a dancer or an actor. They may talk about a movie they just saw that affected them deeply. They may speak of their business enterprises and find out that now businesses are starting to realize that the “bottom line” is not really sufficient; but there is a “second bottom line,” or a third. Business schools are now inviting designers to discuss creativity and design, to apply these principles into business practices because worker are no longer content to work in “bottom line” driven companies, but they want their whole person affirmed, and they want community. What I hear these workers stating, is that they want their humanity back. And in that conversation, art always presents itself as an expression of that humanity.

I was recently speaking at a church in NYC, and asked the people what they enjoy doing on Sundays apart from going to church. And everything they listed had something to do with the arts and entertainment. Art is everywhere, from the food we order in restaurants, to clothes we purchase, to paintings hanging on museums. Aristotle defined the arts as “our capacity to make.” So we could broaden our discussion into medicine and sciences. Even if we do not include these sister disciplines in our discussions, one thing is for sure: Our cultural productions and our art will defines us, whether we like it or not. Art expresses who we are.

One of the most frustrating moments in recent memory, for myself as an arts advocate, was to see the Super Bowl half time show knowing, that for the first time, that Janet Jackson fiasco was being broadcast in China. What do the Chinese think of us now? We have come to define ourselves by how we degrade ourselves, and we have exported that vision to the world.

When I traveled with The First Lady to represent the USA at the UNESCO general assembly several years ago, one of the the UNESCO officials told us of her fears in America’s reengagement with UNESCO: “We are struggling to believe that the US can bring more than McDonalds, Coca Cola or Hollywood movies (I might add pornography to that list, but she was too polite).” We tried to convince her and other UNESCO leaders that we have a very unique patronage system that encourages our democratic patronage of the arts like the NEA and NEH. But it was when she connected with our projects with Shakespeare and Jazz Masters programs and touring of Martha Graham dance troops that convinced her that we were committed to a higher vision. These distinctively American forms of art, I would argue, are the greatest fruits of our democracy. And we have every reason to celebrate and broadcast with pride what freedom has brought us.

Tolstoy stated “Art is not a pleasure, a solace, or an amusement; art is great matter. Art is an organ of human life, transmitting man's reasonable perception into feeling”.

Art is a building block of civilization. A civilization that does not value its artistic expressions is a civilization that does not value itself. These tangible artistic expressions help us to understand ourselves. The arts teach us to respect both the diversity of our communities and the strength of our traditions. I encourage people not to segment art into an “extra” sphere of life and decorations. Why? Because art is everywhere, and has already taken root in our lives.

Therefore, the questions is not so much “why art?” but “which art?” We are presented with a choice. And this choice is a responsibility of cultural stewardship. Just as we have responsibility for natural resources, so do we have to take stewardship care of our culture.

What, then, does the current cultural ecosystem look like? NEA Research such as Reading at Risk, is pointing to a cultural epidemic of disengagement. The studies point to how we are reading less and less, but even more pronounced, in my mind, is how we are less engaged with civic activities, with nature (and even sports!).

The Columbine High School incident and 9/11 taught us that we can either use our imagination for destroy lives or to save lives. We have on the one hand a girl reading Macbeth (she wanted to be an actor) in the library, and on the other a teen pointing a gun at her head and asking her “do you still believe in God?” And she said “yes” and was shot. Her words affirmed the source of her life and salvation, and inspired countless others to express that belief: His actions prompted others to copy the destructive acts of horrors. On 9/11 we had, on the one hand, militant hijackers who took their imaginative vengeance into determined evil acts. On the other hand were firefighters who climbed the falling towers. We have to realize that before any of these acts were committed, they were imagined. We swim in the ecosystem of imagined actions. We do have a responsibility to that power. We do have a choice between saving lives, or destroying lives.

If we do not teach our children, and ourselves, that what we imagine, and how we design the world, can make a difference, the culture of cynicism will do that for us. If we do not take the initiative to love our neighbors by imagining better neighborhoods and cities, despair will take the imaginations of their children and turn them into destructive forces.

A few hopeful examples in the ecosystem of culture today:

1) Rafe Esquith, a National Medal of Arts recipient two years ago for his efforts among the Hobart Elementary School children of inner city Los Angeles, challenges immigrant children, many of whom do not speak English, to memorize and perform Shakespeare. In the recent ceremony announcing "American Masterpieces," a new N.E.A. initiative to bring masterpieces of visual art, dance and music to American cities, regional museums and schools, the First Lady and other guests sat in awe as two of Mr. Esquith's students performed Henry the Fifth. Beyond knowing their demanding lines, they gave life to the words and elevated us all in the audience. Their childlike but confident orations had a beauty and a deeper resonance, something that this nation desperately needs to hear and understand today when these sounds are too often drowned out by crass commercial noise. Our children's voices can be elevated, drawing the world's attention to excellence, and the nobility of civilization.

2) About 20 years ago, Mayor Joseph Riley of Charleston, South Carolina woke up one day and realized that being a mayor means that you are the chief architect and designer of your city. He came to the NEA and asked for help because he knew nothing about design. What a humble man. He states: “We mayors exhaust ourselves with lots of decisions – political, personnel, budget. But 100 years from now, there will be no real evidence of how we made those decisions. In contrast, a decision about the physical design of a city will influence the city and its people for generations.” Now the Mayors Institute has helped over 625 mayors become the chief urban designers of their cities. 8 mayors are locked up in a room with 8 designers without the media or their aids. They share solutions, and dreams. Then they go home to their towns to see how the real life solutions can also benefit the environment and the general quality of life. This effort was so successful that it has grown to affect leadership at the state level. I just attended a press conference with NEA chairman Dana Gioa and Former Governors Christine Todd Whitman of New Jersey and Parris N. Glendening of Maryland to begin a Governor’s Institute on Community Design that brings this transformation into the state level.

The Governor’s Institute is co-sponsored by the NEA and the EPA. Strange bedfellows? No, it’s smart to connect the two —again, it’s the issue of stewardship. The best design is most efficient, and friendly to the environment. The best design considers what the community needs first, and even her voiceless inhabitants. The best design brings beauty into our lives.

A journey of an artist in the ecosystem of culture:

I get to spend my days, thinking and imagining, painting and writing. I think about a journey that started as a child, simply wanting to draw and express, having encouraging parents, and being blessed with a wife who suffers alongside with me. The life of an artist is never easy, but I take it seriously because I know that imagination has consequences.

But I do, on occasion, go back to that question "Why Art?" Because it was a question I addressed to myself in a diary for a creative writing class in college, many years ago. My professor, wrote back in his comments: “Your questions are valuable, and I encourage you to push that question further, as many of the writers and artists have done in the past: 'Why Live?'”

Perhaps that’s why we need the arts in Leesburg. By continuing to create and imagine a better world, we live .

Tuesday, June 02, 2009

Malaysia International Christian Artists Show (MICAS)



There will be an international Christian artists gathering in KL 11-26 July. As part of the event, there will be dialogue sessions with international Christian artists, art appreciation talks, art as investment seminars, etc.

http://www.artmalaysia.com.my

Date: 11-26 July 2009.
Curator of the show : Pastor. Chong Kengsen is a highly regarded Malaysian artist and now a pastor of a church in KL. He was a student of Malaysia Bible Seminari.

Please bring along friends and church members to this international show.

May the beauty of God touch our lives and transform it.

Saturday, December 20, 2008

Tribute to Malaysian Art Icon


From Encyclopedia of Modern Asia Summary: Datuk Chuah Thean Teng (1914-2008) a Malaysian painter achieved an international reputation during the 1950s by developing a new art form that adapted the wax-resist techniques of batik textile production to create a painting medium. Chuah captured traditional Malayan ways of life on canvas in colorful scenes rendered in a semiabstract style.

During the decade following Malaya's establishment as an independent nation in 1957, Chuah was credited with giving artistic expression to a distinctively Malayan visual consciousness. Together with two sons, Chuah Seow Keng and Chuah Siew Tang, who have followed their father as painters in batik, Chuah established the Yahong Gallery in Penang.


Click here for a sample of his breathtaking works and a short introduction on the artist.

Himanshu Bhatt's tribute at The Sun: "For his place in our nation's history, it is only apt that we give due recognition to the legacy of Chuah. It is time that Chuah's profound contribution to our culture and art is celebrated, perhaps in the same vein that Holland trakes pride in Van Gogh, Spain in Salvador Dali and China in Xu Beihong."

Wednesday, October 01, 2008

Important Values For Christian Artists

CDPC has launched a creative drama ministry named "LABU" (2 Corinthians 4:7 "we ourselves are like fragile clay jars containing this great treasure"). So Alicia and Ian Brubaker are looking for scriptwriters, actors, props & costumes, multimedia, lighting, stage crews etc. Do contact us Alicia at inquiry@cdpc.org.my for more information.

In conjunction with this ministry, it would be appropriate to consider what are some Important Values For Christian Artists as they consider how to express their art in a God-glorifying way. Do check out this excellent article from New Attitude with the following points:

1. Christian artists should see that their fundamental identity and purpose in life is derived from something entirely outside themselves – the forgiveness of sins and reconciliation to God that has come through the atoning death of Jesus Christ on the cross

2. Christian artists should view their talents as a gift from God and see its use ultimately as worship to God.

3. A Christian artist should have a sober assessment of his gift and neither over-estimate the opportunities it should given him or undervalue the contribution he can make with it.

4. The most authentic Christian art results from our joy in Christ overflowing into Christian art, not our strategies to do art that is Christian.

5. Creating art is an expression of faith and obedience, not of compulsion or identity.

6. The Christian artist should see his art as a way to love God, his people, and the world.

7. The Christian Artist sees the sovereign hand of God in both his opportunities and his obstacles.

8. The Christian artist is committed to biblical truth in the way he lives and what he creates

9. While the Christian artist is under no burden to make all of his art explicitly Christian, it would be an unbiblical use of his gift to intentionally create a body of work without reference to Christ and his atoning work on the cross.

10. The Christian artist rejects the worldly concept of artist as an outsider and embraces his place among God’s people in the local church as essential to his life and gifting

11. The Christian artist should not ignore his personal responsibility to evaluate the theological soundness of his work.

12. Because the Christian artist trusts God, he will battle selfish ambition, competition, and any pretense of entitlement in regard to his art.

13. The Christian artist will see the evaluation of others as an essential help in both growing in their art and assessing its fruitfulness.

14. The Christian artist will resist elitism and care about the accessibility of his art to the average Christian in the congregation

15. The Christian artist must never confuse the joy of creativity with the joy of knowing and pleasing God.

Sunday, December 16, 2007

The Golden Compass: Atheism For Kids?

Al Mohler: Tayangan The Golden Compass sebagai filem gergasi musim sejuk ini merupakan cabaran baru bagi umat Kristian -- terutamanya ibu bapa. Yang baru adalah penerbitan sebuah filem fantasi menarik dengan para pelakon terkenal ini yang juga membawa suatu pesanan yang secara langsung subversif terhadap agama Kristian. Barangkali ia bukan cabaran terakhir sebegini.

Setelah menonton filem ini pada suatu tayangan pendahuluan dan membaca ketiga-tiga buku His Dark Materials karya Philip Pullman, saya yakin kita menghadapi suatu cabaran yang nyata dan memerlukan pemikiran cermat dan kematangan daya fikir.

Teruskan penerokaan anda dalam topik ini di sini:

LeaderU: The Golden Compass: A World of Spiritual Darkness

A Briefing For Concerned Christians by Al Mohler

Atheism For Kids by Gene Edward Veith

A Primer on Atheism By Russ Wise

Golden Compass: Pointing In The Wrong Direction

ChristianityToday Review

Review by the Thinking Christian

Tuesday, May 15, 2007

Spiderman 3 and the moral imagination

This post is interspersed with spoilers throughout. If you want to watch Spiderman 3 and have not done so, it's best to read this only after you've seen it.

"We want to see with other eyes, to imagine with other imaginations, to feel with other hearts, as well as with our own. We demand windows." [1] We demand stories. It’s how we make sense of the world. Narratives grip us, for good or bad: witness the heartbreaking drama of Madeleine McCann’s kidnapping currently unfolding in the British press[2]. Negatively, it’s why gossip holds so much appeal. The windows are shut, we want them pried open. It’s Gnosticism all over again – “secret knowledge” only known to the elite.

But surely the realm of the imagination has no bearing on reality? They’re fun, they’re entertaining, great for a Saturday night out. But the world of the fictive isn’t so easily separated from what we call the “real world”. They reflect something we already know – we already have an image of New York in our minds, regardless of whether it’s accurate or not, or whether we’ve actually been to the Big Apple – before going to watch Spiderman 3. Even fantastic creations – talking animals and extraterrestrials, have something fundamentally human about them that help make them identifiable in some way to us. But they can shape us too. Fables, fairy tales, morality plays all recognise this. In Ian McEwan’s Atonement, Briony witnesses something which she can’t make heads or tails of, and, not being in possession of all sides of the story, allows her imagination to see things that aren’t quite there which ends up having real consequences. [3] "In works of fiction, we explore the possibilities of understanding and living in this world." [4]

Imagination is often thought of as that belonging to the special few – the artist, the inventor, the musician. But we all have imagination, it simply is that faculty which helps us explain life as it is and it ought to be. It’s part of being human, and it also is not exempt from the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Read on...

Tuesday, February 20, 2007

Making Music For The Kingdom


Minni Ang wrote a much-needed reflection on Proclaiming God’s Kingdom through Music, discussing "how music permeates modern life and what our response to this should be as citizens of the kingdom of Jesus Christ residing in the world of today.

We will look at how the entire foundation of Western music was built by committed Christians and how this dominance of music slipped away into the hands of others. We will then look at the role of music within the Church of today, and close with challenges facing Christians to redeem and restore music for the kingdom of God."

DID YOU KNOW?
In random tests conducted in a Malaysian church recently, it was found that the volume levels during the service averaged 96 dB, with spikes of up to 110 dB at times. Scientific studies have shown that continual exposure to noises with amplitudes greater than 90 dB can cause permanent hearing damage!
Maybe it’s time for churches to turn down the volume…


Click here to Read The Entire Article

Sunday, February 18, 2007

Art For God's Glory

An interview with Colin Kirton, Artistic Director of Footstool Players and freelance performing artist (October 2006)

"While the arrogance of modern art sets itself against God, Christian art history tells us that art is one of the finest expressions of mankind’s spiritual aspiration. Indeed, art is more than just word or dance or paint, it is also the voice of one’s soul in his or her spiritual quest. In the Malaysian Church context, art has yet to be recognized as having a role in the Kingdom of God. If at all, it is merely seen as an evangelistic tool. Perhaps an interview with Colin Kirton may enlighten us on how art plays its role in discovering and articulating Christian faith. Simply, do art for God’s glory!"

Read The Entire Interview Here

Question: One of Footstool Players’ objectives is to challenge Christians and seekers with regard to matters of faith. In this increasingly visual-oriented culture, the Bible seems to have lost its appeal in its written form; young people today don't read. How can art provoke them to read the Bible? How can art help young people to understand God's work through Scripture?

Colin: We find ways to creatively express the eternal truths of the Scripture in art forms that will have memorable impact in the lives of our audience. Art makes the familiar unfamiliar so that the audience is forced to see something with new eyes. For the Footstool Players and I, we do this through the medium of theatre. Theatre is in effect storytelling, and that is pretty close to the way the Bible goes about communicating God’s heart to us! Much of Scripture is narrative, metaphor and poetry. It makes great subject matter for theatre!

Often, we forget that the Judeo-Christian faith is very much based on the pre-Gutenberg oral tradition.

In the 21st century, audio-visual has become dominant, not just with young people, but with the older folks too! We need to rise to the occasion and find ways to communicate Scriptural truth in the media of the day. This is certainly not to diminish the need to read our Bible! But there is a need to creatively explore other options to capture the minds and hearts of people. I am always amazed at how, years later, some of the audience can articulate details and the point of the theatrical pieces we have performed, when they are often unable to even remember what their pastors preached about two Sundays ago!